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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Daniel Weis

    Under key/mode what should I select to never update? And to not appear in My Applications in Play Store ?

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Awesome idea, thank you.

    It's pretty clear at this point that all our feedback is falling on deaf ears.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    I have not updated yet at all but wondering if anyone knows of a suitable replacement that is just like SwiftKey? I have tried 2 or 3 others and none of them seem to have the auto space and prediction like the older version of SwiftKey has. I guess I could always just stick with the older version that works.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    There's nothing else quite like SwiftKey. If you used the prediction feature of SwiftKey, then it was unique among keyboard apps. Now that SwiftKey has homogenized itself to be like everyone else, the only alternative is Old SwiftKey.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Just as a bit of perspective, say 1000 users have found this to be an inconvenient change. That would assume that every comment here was a unique user and factoring in every comment and negative review on Google. We understand as moderators the pain in change, we feel ya. Aside from all the negative, this was a feature requested change. Still with all the negativity revolving around this issue hasn't even scraped the surface of how many requested this change. It's not that SwiftKey users aren't listened to, your opinions are valuable and have shaped this application tremendously. It has always been the goal of SwiftKey to create the most productive and intuitive keyboard and this is a feature. It was requested. That's why it's a "new feature" and not a change just for changes sake. There is no official comments or reaching out on the thread simply because of the nature of negative feedback.

    If you choose to rollback SwiftKey, that's fine, your prerogative. If you choose to adopt and adapt to this new change you may find it much better than prior usage of flow. SwiftKey is already one of the most versitile and customizable third party apps available, more options creates congestion and confusion. Will it ever be a toggle? Possibly. Does creating accounts and complaining about the change let the developers know you'd like it to be so? Not really. Feature requests run the direction of SwiftKey development, if you'd like to know how to submit one, feel free to ask.

    As always Happy Typing,
    Sub

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    Daniel Weis

    @Apostolos Tsiatsos
    Default settings work fine. Once the apk is resigned it will have a unique security certificate that doesn't match the original app so it'll never update.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2 If what you say was true, then this would've been an OPTIONAL feature that we can choose to opt out of, rather than something that's being forced on everyone. So I call BS.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2
    Thank you for finally acknowledging this thread but I think the issue that made it more infuriating was the fact that you guys just made the change without even acknowledging it in the update log on the Play Store. If communication and transparency is key, then that flies right in the face of it. I played around with my keyboard for a few days thinking there was a bug or something before realizing that you guys had secretly changed a feature. If so many people were requesting it, then wouldn't you make a big deal and announce the change?

    And if what you're saying is true about people requesting the change, then couldn't you take into account the incredibly large number of positive reviews you had with the old system? That means that people were happy with it.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Ok I'm done here.

    Thanks to the help of the users on this thread I downgraded Swiftkey to a previous version and I resigned the apk using ZipSigner so it doesn't upgrade automatically.

    As a software developer I can add that we used this example for a discussion in our company about "What NOT to do during an important feature change" in our softwares.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    I love how the developers and moderators are keeping their heads in the sand... "oh everyone was BEGGING us for this feature!" (which makes NO sense whatsoever, why would everyone be begging for SwiftKey to behave the same as every other keyboard app?). Meanwhile, the community is hacking together a solution that bypasses all their attempts to force us into their lane. And the moderators are all like "Fine! Be that way, see if we care!" This is shameful, embarrassing customer service and PR. I'd expect to see this kind of stuff in a Dilbert comic strip.

    SwiftKey will never get another dime from me. I wish I could ask for a refund of the money I've already given them (back when I was proud to support their development efforts).

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2 a Chinese proverb says: You can wake someone who's asleep, but you can't wake someone who pretends to be sleeping.

    Oh by the way, your newest beta in play store says :

    Fixed
    - We will now auto space after Flowing and adding an emoji 👍

    You may want to check your alternative facts with other colleagues ;) 

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2 I actually take offense on that comment of yours. My fiancee and myself paid for the app a while ago. Upon the change we thought originally that these were bugs in the app, then we started searching for a toggle, then we headed towards the internet to find that, no, this was an actual intended change.

    Yes, I have created an account there, because the very first post of that thread is "tell us what you think". Which I did, and I hope I provided constructive feedback. Then @ryan-p asked for more information from my feedback, which was a hint my feedback was in fact constructive, and I happily provided more information.

     

    But now you're coming in there saying we're, what, just a bunch of crybabies who can't adapt ? That's downright insulting.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Yeah, pretty funny how this thread was officially started by SwiftKey as a means of gathering feedback on the new feature, and now a moderator outright states that negative reactions in this thread are ignored by the developers. This is worse than Dilbert-esque...

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    Subliminal5oh2

    I paid for the app as well. This thread started as an announcement for that feature. That was also my 2nd comment on this thread. As a long time user of SwiftKey and registered on over 50 devices across the iOS and Android platforms maybe I just understand the way this app works and changes better than most. I'm truly sorry if you find my tone offensive. For everyone rolling back the app again I say that is your prerogative. I personally love the functionality of the predictions popping up the way they are during flow as it saves me time from going back and editing, especially since I still use flow through space and have 0 issues with efficiency. It's about adopting and adapting to the many ways SwiftKey has changed and evolved over the 7 years I have been using it and the 5 that I have been a moderator over these forums and the original VIP forums.
    Not all change comes with welcome arms, and from TouchType LLC to Microsoft we as regulars here have seen this countless times. For long time users it's a change to get used to. For new users it's a brilliant feature that was requested through the feature request system enough to make developers jump to change it. Again, if any of you would like a tutorial on how to place a feature request rather than just saying how bad SwiftKey is now, feel free to reach out, I have no issues educating.

    And finally, I'm truly sorry if any of you take offense with my tone, keep in mind that I do not work for SwiftKey or Microsoft I am simply a long time user that offered to help moderate the forums. After being here for as long as I have and never differing from SwiftKey simply due to the amazing prediction my keyboard has after years of usage and personalization no keyboard even comes close. So I adapt to changes because ultimately I do not create this app or even work for the department of people who do, I'm a user whose input is valued, just like all of you.

    Think of this thread like a Yelp review, people who have a good time and enjoy the environment they're praising tell 10 friends, the people who don't like the environment go to Yelp and complain about their experience. Positive reviews are rarely written because the user doesn't have a reason to visit a forum, create a user name, find a thread, post their positive story. Exactly the opposite case with negative reviews. Between various platforms and OS's SwiftKey has been downloaded over 250 million times. No where close to the numbers of comments on this thread. And again, the amounts of requests for this feature still outweigh the people who don't like it because they're not used to it.

    Individual ux is very important to the developers and creative team behind SwiftKey, and feature requests are the best way in my experience to make change reality. How many in this thread have created a feature request to make the flow an option or to work how it used to?

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2 "For new users it's a brilliant feature that was requested through the feature request system"

     

    No, it is the removal of the unique feature that was the reason people used this app and not every other keyboard out there. Needing to take extra time to verify what you just swiped instead of assuming it was correct and making a prediction is a huge step backwards.

     

    I'm not going to repeat everything I said before (links etc are in some of the last ten pages), but I will note for people who are new to the thread - I'm still 100% convinced it's because they lost their lawsuit to WordLogic, were forced to change it to be non-infringing as part of the settlement, and are all under NDA which is why we officially get "crickets" and the occasional non-employee moderator showing up.

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    Matt Phillips

    @subliminal5oh2 tl:dr = you're a REALLY bad moderator. You have basically just said "Well, it works for me, so eff you. Want help being brainwashed into liking it too? Let me know!"

    I don't care how many devices you've activated SwiftKey on. I've been using it since 2011, big deal.

    We, the ones you are obviously looking at as the lowly pleb end-users, were asked for feedback and we've given that feedback. It has been resounding, spread across the forums here, on Play Store reviews, across every form of social media and even in news articles from massive online media outlets. That feedback is overwhelmingly NEGATIVE.

    Show us proof that this feature was so voraciously demanded by users, because we don't believe it. We are the users. We hate it. Thank God for the old apks and the ability to disassociate them from the Play Store, because even you just said that our voices don't matter and we won't even get something so simple as a toggle.

    I'll be taking the keyboard I paid for, releasing it from developer updates and using it in such a way that works BETTER for myself and many others, the users you say don't matter.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Ryan P wrote:
    "Let us know your thoughts on this new change in the comments below."

    Subliminal5oh2 wrote:
    "There is no official comments or reaching out on the thread simply because of the nature of negative feedback."
    [...]
    "This thread started as an announcement for that feature."

    Apparently the moderators and the SwiftKey Team aren't on the same page. We specifically get asked for feedback, and when that feedback isn't what they want to hear, they pretend like we don't exist and we get ignored.

    What's funny is that the number of 1 to 3 star ratings in the Play Store have gone up by the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS in the last month, and most of them are former 5-star ratings that have been downgraded due to this change. And the most recent 5-star reviews appear to be totally fake.

    For the record, yes, there has been a feature request regarding this issue. And I commented on it. It's being ignored by the developers. If this was an open source project, it would've been forked back in February and the devs would be scrambling to figure out how to bring users back.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Well read it how you will and keep presumptions up, again your prerogative. Ultimately the development staff wants your opinions, feature requests are the way to do that. If you all want to continue wasting your time assuming my particular thoughts and feelings on the matter that's again, your decision. I'm simply trying to inform you of the most effective way to push your feelings onto the development staff rather than waste your time in a thread.

    Again, how many here have submitted feature requests for it to be reintroduced as a roll out reversal or a toggled option?

    As far as my talents as a moderator, your opinion of bad is odd considering I'm giving you all the option to input a feature request rather than needlessly complaining in a thread regarding the feature change. @Rev, no that's not what I said read again. I'm saying that the new flow works for me and countless others as there is a very small section of the community that has raised issues or complaints regarding this feature change compared to the ones that requested prediction options be added to flow.

    The moderators and our social staff are on the same exact page, this thread goes on and on much like plenty in the past and the people posting refuse to go to the proper outlet (feature requests) so nothing ever changes. I'm trying to change that by telling you all to submit a request to change it directly to the development staff rather than complain in a forum.

    As a member of this forum I will remove myself from the conversation.

    As always, happy typing, and remember, keep it civil or feel free to leave. Do not insult members of the moderator team due to your frustration as we don't allow that type of behavior and we certainly do not do the same to you.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Also @Frank, feature requests are individual tickets you can submit on the homepage of these forums, scroll down and check the left hand side of the page. These are not topics, they are databased and collected then viewed in real time, the more there are the more important the change is. These forums are meant specifically for discussion, mostly ran by the SwiftKey social team and the moderators, just like the VIP forums. Submit there. Cheers :)

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Yeah I submitted a feature request a month ago (got confused about what it was I had done at the time since it was so long ago). Someone replied saying "thanks for your feedback!". So essentially, meaningless.

    You're a terrible moderator. A good moderator doesn't type up paragraphs upon paragraphs of opinions and then close with "but I'm leaving now, anything you say is irrelevant... BYE!"

    Maybe find a new hobby that better matches your skill set.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Ticket # 124520 if there's any doubt about my honesty.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Standard feature request form response. Tons of those come in per day. My job as a moderator is to help with bug issues and reporting and spam management.
    Me telling you all how to enter a feature request as the most effective way of communication to the developers is my personal way of helping you and has nothing to do with my role as a moderator. Keep those negative attacks on my person to yourself as I'm impervious to your insults and you simply don't know me. I have not once insulted you or anyone else here, I expect the same of everyone here.

    Also, and for the last time, your opinions are important to the development staff as long as they hear those opinions. Submit requests.

    Happy typing, and have a good night. :)

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    Subliminal5oh2

    No worries about your honesty mate, I don't doubt you guys. I'm just explaining 2 sides of every coin. If the thousands of people who take issue with this did the same Frank, the rollback could've potentially already happened. Assuming that it still fit the platform of the development staffs idea of direction for the application and how it works, given that it's still very much their baby.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2
    So much for removing yourself from the conversation. Though it's not really a conversation considering SwiftKey is completely ignoring us. While you are telling us to get over ourselves and suck it up and work like you do. You're insulting, demeaning, disrespectful, and now  down right condescending. Moderators are not there to bash users who have real and legitimate complaints and problems.

    First an employee of SwiftKey asked us for our opinions, and we gave it. Then he commenced to tell us that if we didn't like the new "feature" that we must be doing it wrong and to just get used to it. When we still resist they send you to insult us.

    Not only should you remove yourself from this conversation, you should resign as a moderator. You should not lash out at us for being upset and angry. We feel ignored and betrayed by a company we have supported for many years and don't need the treatment you and SwiftKey have given us for our trouble.

    Of course, I do not expect that you will remove yourself as you are completely deaf to our cries. I can only hope that someone of intelligence at SwiftKey will finally see this thread and do something constructive.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Tag me in something and expect me to respond. That's the way this works. I'm maintaining a professional and courteous tone, if you don't like what I'm saying, that's on you. So again, I will resign from this argument as it's pointless.

    Your opinions matter, speculation and insults do not.

    I will stick around as moderator and delete comments linking to apks and watch for spam posts. As far as continuing to repeat that a feature request is the best way to go is obviously falling on deaf ears, so no worries. Like I said, change is easy and I prefer the flow feature as it is now. I see where you guys are coming from, and hope that you eventually get what you want in the format of an option, but we've already been over how to get that done. 


    Again and for the last time, personal insults and disrespect across these forums is not welcome and will not be tolerated.

    Thanks, happy typing, and as always thanks for using and commenting on SwiftKey forums :)

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    Daniel Weis

    Here's a link to the feature request page. I encourage everybody to fill this out! Flood them with requests!

    https://support.swiftkey.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=27342

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    Permanently Deleted User

    What's annoying to me is we've seen the problem carefully described, which takes effort and time. We've seen no comparable response.

    Is this new system faster once you know it? Not according to my subjective experience, and that of many other long time users. But SwiftKey has decided to do it, anyway. They must, one would think, therefore have internal testing data that shows a speed increase. If that's the case, then I could accept the new system and try to adapt.

    But no such info is forthcoming. Instead we get the vague assurances of a tone deaf moderator (not an insult, an observation—his tone is insulting but he has no awareness of that fact, and should probably be removed as moderator, if anyone higher up is reading this), who says that we'll get used to it.

    I don't believe the new system is better. I believe it's slower for several reasons: the difficulty of inserting a colon while swiping, for example. Swipe-space-backspace-colon, rather than swipe-colon, or even swipe-backspace-colon. The worst of both worlds.

    So much is wrong with this, and the only response of even minimal substance has been a moderator who can't or won't answer the actual questions, and instead has insulted a bunch of us long time users who spent the time and energy to come here and carefully describe their issues.

    Not good, SwiftKey. Not good.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Thanks for the link Daniel, hopefully people follow!

    Travis, I'm truly sorry that you feel that way. For those that don't like he context of my messages it maybe misconstrued as a negative tone or my lack of knowledge about my tone. I have not, and will never, insult the members of this forum in anyway whatsoever. I do not sugar coat things and I never have. As I said from the get go, SwiftKey values everyone's opinion, I was simply giving an option for progressive change rather than a continuous loop of comments. This thread has continued solid for a month and yet, there are a fraction of people visiting the link posted above by Daniel.
    If there was at any point the mistake that I was being insulting in anyway I do apologize for that misinderstanding.
    There are only a handful of people who have been around the SwiftKey community as long as I have, and most of them are my fellow moderators. This is volunteer work that we all take immense pride in. Most of the time my personal feelings toward the application get mistaken for the official position of SwiftKey, and simply put that is not the case.

    As an end user, regardless of fancy flair on a forum, I have an opinion of how the app should run as well. I have listened to everyone's opinion and have inserted mine very rarely regarding this issues, simply because I am a fan of the change. My original concern is the second comment on this thread, and after practicing and getting used to the functionality, I see the value of this update. I know it isn't a popular opinion, but it is just that, an opinion. Feedback to a functionality that SwiftKey, upon research and beta testing, has decided is the best move for their app.

    Thank you for your well thought out response, and I will be happy to create a second account for these forums so that my being a moderator doesn't get confused with my personal opinion of the app. Time and experience here, on the front lines of this community and the one before, has shown me how things change. I apologize for trying to pass along that information as an end user.

    Happy typing, and cheers to all.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2 I am going to precise my previous post, in the light of what you explained in the meantime.

     

    Your status of moderator, the phrasing you used in that post, and the tone, made me and probably others think that you were speaking on behalf of SwiftKey's developers, or in other words, a spokesperson. As a spokesperson of a company who took our money for their product, your phrasing and insinuation about our unwillingless to accept change is insulting. As an individual user, that's fine, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion about ours. The part that is offending and that offended me personally, is that you acted as a spokesperson.

     

    If an actual company who takes people customers money says to his customers "welp, sorry but that's the way it is, you just don't understand it, so keep on using downgraded versions of the app, that's fine with us", that would be insanely badly done PR. Maybe not as bad as Pepsi or United did lately, but still bad.

     

    So the confusion here is that you were speaking as an individual end users, whereas we all thought you were speaking as a spokesperson. Unfortunately, I actually believe you only threw oil onto the fire due to this - that is still a PR problem here when a volunteer forum moderator can be viewed as a spokesperson employed by the company we're trying to communicate with.

     

    On another point, you've challenged people here to ask whether or not they've submitted a feature request. I honestly only created a forum account to give my candid feedback about this new feature on this forum, and I had no idea, nor didn't find any previous method to submit such request - I will do so now diligently. I am not monitoring actively any other thread of that forum, and this one is already pretty spammy on my inbox, and I have no bandwidth to dedicate but a few minutes per week at best. So, yes, I didn't probably take all the time I should've to research for such feature request, and that's on me. But, may I suggest you that instead of being confrontational with the other forum users about it, as a forum moderator, maybe you could've tried to proactively give that link ? That last line you've added as a challenge sounded snotty and condescending, and you've done it twice, before another user gave the actual link to the feature request page. I don't believe this is a proper way as a forum moderator to handle an already inflamed situation, and I hope you understand I think you could've done a better job at it by avoiding confrontational speak - especially if people might mix you up with an actual spokesperson.

     

    One last point, as you are trying to defend the developers' UX methodology. I'd like to talk about something here. It turns out that I was a PhD student in human-machine interaction, which includes user experience with computers. There are lots of things one can learn in that field, and there are a few very basic key things one should or shouldn't do when dealing with UX. One of these basic key points is that users resist change. The main reason is training. Once you've trained people with one UX, forcing them to change for something different is always going to cause friction, even if it's for the greater good. As a showcase example, let's look at Apple.

    When Apple decided that they needed to change the scrolling on the MacBook trackpads, they had very good reasons to do so. A lot of data-backed reasons, I believe. Userbase was starting to switch between having a computer first and iPhone second to having an iPhone first, and a computer second. iPhone users were trained to use the natural scrolling on their phone, and they were having troubles adapting to the scrolling method of MacBooks, and that was causing adoption problems for the younger audience. So they decided to revert the scrolling on the trackpad and introduced the "natural scrolling".

    The thing is, Apple knew that they already alienated their older userbase with the reverted scrolling, and that such a change would be very badly perceived with them. So what did they do ? Well, first, on the migration patch to whichever version of MacOS introduced natural scrolling, there was a splash screen with a video talking about that new feature, and describing how the users could interact with it. That way, users who get the new patch wouldn't feel disoriented with their new trackpad behavior. This is action item number 1. Then, they explained that, if users wanted to go back to the previous behavior, they could flip a switch in the settings to restore it. That's action item number 2.

    By having both action item 1 and 2, Apple made sure that 1- their userbase would be informed of the new default behavior, so they would immediately know what was going on without feeling lost, and 2- their trained userbase would be able to revert the behavior back to what Apple trained them on for years.

    See the parallel here ? Apple is probably THE grandmaster of UX in this whole world, and they knew that by introducing a drastic UX change, they needed to do a certain list of very basic action items to avoid alienating their userbase. Both of these basic action items could've been taken by the SwiftKey development team, following Apple's leadership in UX, who did a similar switch a few years back. But they didn't. And that's a shame, proving that their UX team isn't all that great after all.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    Fair enough. And very well thought out and respectful response.
    As for my status at SwiftKey I have said countless times over the years that I do not represent SwiftKey and they're views. I am literally a moderator, which by definition is more or less a maintainence tech on a forum. It doesn't say in my title "SwiftKey team" or "SwiftKey support" or "SwiftKey employee" I am a Community moderator. This being the community, and the forums being a haven for spam and other intrusive things as you can effortlessly find this place on the web.

    As for posting the link, I had figured with the responses I had received that many were already aware of how to go about filling in the form that they visited the homepage of these forums and read there to find where the proper channel is. This community was built on the foundation of communication and discussion, of a request had been made as a post, it was usually to gauge feedback on said features. This thread was an implementation of a feature announcement that degraded quickly over the past month to the point where it is basically a circle jerk of the same comments. I do understand where you're coming from and the parallels you are making in regards to the original feature of this thread, however, the UX developers quite a few have been quick to call out or bash in this thread are also the ones who created the prediction technology and AI that has made such passionate users of this application, so as a long time and multiplatform user of the app myself, I stand beside their decision and await further updates that will better the app.
    Again, it also works for me. I use flow rarely, often when I'm only using one hand or trying to send a quick message at work discreetly. Being able to edit and fix on the fly helps me, also sets the direction of the sentence and allows me to continue to use the predictions rather than swipes. This function screams for me, and makes flow typing quite a bit faster. Did the change take some getting used to? Absolutely, I've been flow typing the same way for 4 years now (slow to adopt the flow when it released). Does it work better now? It needs improvement, the random punctuation and capitalization errors are somewhat of a pain but not too difficult to finish my message and edit, as the context of the sentence is much more appropriate.

    Thank you for your well though out response and I apologize for issuing "challenges" as you saw it. That was not my intention. As far as throwing fuel to the fire, these forums have been up and running after the migration from VIP for 4 months, this thread has seen more activity in the month it's been up than the 3 prior. Not sure how to add flame to a bright burning light, but one has to see the value in what you say and move forward from there. Often times I've found that when someone disagrees with me or offers an alternative I don't want I label it condescending and belligerent as well, so tone via text is a difficult thing for some to understand. Moving forward I will be sure to monitor that and disclaim my lack of affiliation with SwiftKey proper first, before adding my personal opinion.

    Believe me when I say, every moderator is reporting what we see here, but that only goes so far. SwiftKey determines usage of its products to be the most important vehicle driving development. It has been that way since day one, and the SwiftKey team (that I have contact with) is still dedicated to that mentality.

    SwiftKey also made everything free to entice new users, which it has done very well. The problem is long time users like the majority posting here want the good ol' days SwiftKey back, despite the updates rolled out. It's happened in less than 7 times within my tenure with SwiftKey as a moderator.

    Big changes hurt some and help others. Ultimately finding that balance is something SwiftKey has done very well over the years for me and it's why I continue to use their products on iOS and Android.

    Nevertheless everyone follow the link posted above, and I look forward to seeing your faces around the forums. Goodnight and happy typing!

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