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    Permanently Deleted User

    Request #125288 Auto space after flow
    Please bring back autospace after flow or make it optional.

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    Greg Aloe

    @Sub, I do appreciate your intention to help us by suggesting we submit a bug report... er, feature request, but that doesn't justify your attitude and arrogance.  And I understand that isn't how you intend to sound, but from our point of view, you must have trouble hiding your true feelings on this matter.  This is evident from your need to constantly defend yourself.  I've read other posts around the web from you, and the ones in this thread are not indicative of your usual attitude.  That was a compliment.

    I submitted my feature request, but admittedly, I don't have much confidence in your advice for at least two reasons.  First, you don't hold a lot of credit given your history in this thread.  Second, assuming you're reading all the posts in this thread, I previously mentioned that I didn't know what else to do to get through to SwiftKey other than to reluctantly reduce my 5-star rating to 1-star.  That would have been a good opportunity for you or Ryan to "challenge us" to find the feature request page.

    Sub, we don't live in these forums the way you do.  You may know how to navigate your backyard, but we're new here.  It's selfish of you to assume we should be able to find the right communication channel especially when SwiftKey already started this thread to (appear to?) solicit feedback.

    My next feature request will be to replace the moderator, who is predominantly doing further damage to SwiftKey customer relationships that are already in deep trouble.

    @Ryan, I understand that you're not in the development department, but mark my words.  If the previous behavior does not come back, then SwiftKey will continue to get lost in the weeds of all the other similar keyboards out there being developed by companies with far more community approval than Microsoft has.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Greg your opinion is valued, and I apologize for the confusion. When someone attacks my person or ability as a moderator, I will defend myself. Just as it is your right to give your opinion it is my right to give mine. Feature requests are app specific, so not sure how much good requesting me to be replaced as a moderator will do for the SwiftKey developers, but feel free to do so. My tone has not been combative aside from the fact that I'm disagreeing with the vast majority of the people in this thread as an end user of SwiftKey. Be that as it may, I apologized for not being clear to most that I don't represent the views or official position of SwiftKey. I also apologized for my tone coming across as rude or otherwise unprofessional regarding these issues. Other than that I'm not defending anything regarding my opinion of this change. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise. Keeping current with moving forward, I appreciate the insight and will keep my personal opinions at the forefront of what I do, simply because I do not feel the need to hide my feelings because of my place as a moderator.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Can I just return to the topic of actual feedback on the change. As someone who was initially hostile to it, I decided on reading this thread to give it a chance and see how I got on with it now I understood the change (which was very badly communicated/handled, incidentally - it should have been clearly mentioned in What's New so people weren't left baffled as to what had gone wrong with their typing!).

    I'm afraid after really trying to make this work, I just can't. There are a number of key typing tasks that simply don't work in the new fashion, and I would be very interested to hear from SwiftKey as to how they think they should be carried out. I'm sure I will miss things here but to my mind the new way simply adds excessive, unintuitive extra keystrokes far too often to a swiped typing flow.

    How am I meant, officially, in SwiftKey's new model, to swipe hyphenated phrases? "All-in-one", "top-quality", that sort of thing? Under the old model it was pretty simple as I recall: you swiped the first word, saw a space had appeared so deleted it, then hit hyphen, then I think just swiped the second word. Easy and intuitive. In the new model, if you attempt that, you would get "All - in - one" or "top - quality". Worse still, as far as I can judge, the only way to get around this is completely counterintuitive. When you've swiped the first word, there is (as far as I can figure out) literally nothing you can press that will enable you to get the hyphen to join onto the word you've swiped. The only way to do it is to type something else, a space, a hyphen, whatever, then delete that. Two key presses, one that moves your cursor forward and enters a character you don't even want, and one that moves it back again. Totally unintuitive and irritating. In the old model, yes, you had to delete a space, but the space was already there so it was half as many key-presses to achieve this, and didn't involve this bizarre back-and-forth shuffling of the cursor. Can anyone from SwiftKey advise me how to swipe "all-in-one" now, and confirm that it does always take more key-presses than it used to?

    The next thing relates to the correction of capitalisation, which was also more intuitive before. There are two ways people using SwiftKey (and probably other phone keyboards) capitalise words: either (1) you press Shift ahead of the word, a bit like you would on a normal keyboard, or (2) you correct the case afterwards by using the Shift key while the word is underlined. Under the old model, both worked consistently. Under the new model, method 2 requires an awkward, unintuitive cursor-shuffle - and that's because you 'fixed' the problem we all initially reported with method 1 requiring an even more awkward procedure to fix! For example, as things stand now with the latest SwiftKey, if I swipe "easter", the word remains underlined, because it's correctable in most respects (by choosing another word or hitting delete), but you can't correct the capitalisation (method 2): to do this, you would have to hit space (or type something else), then delete back until "easter" was underlined again and you could correct its capitalisation. That's because this behaviour was changed in response to our complaints about method 1 no longer working, because we were all getting prior words capitalised: "I am going to my mum's At Easter" (because using method 1 we hit Shift while "at" was underlined so SwiftKey thought we were correcting its capitalisation when we actually wanted to capitalise Easter using method 1).

    For me this capitalisation issue strikes at the very heart of the problem with 'new' SwiftKey. There simply isn't a way to fix this so that both methods of capitalisation continue to work in the new model of swiping. And therefore there simply isn't a way to make new SwiftKey work consistently and not require lots of awkward cursor-shuffling and workarounds of the kinds described here.

    I won't go on any more now as I think these two examples are strong ones. As I say, I really tried to give this a chance, to change my way of thinking around typing to get into the new logic of how to swipe in the new SwiftKey, but there are situations where there simply isn't a logical way to achieve what's needed.

    What was so logical about the way it worked before, was that it intuitively matched the way I believe people think when typing. If you see something isn't correct, whatever device you're typing on, your gut reaction is to reach for the backspace key. Under the old model, if swiping produced the wrong word, one tap on the backspace key would give you some other options, just as it does now without that tap. Yes, the new way saves that one tap, but the logical inconsistencies the system now contorts itself through to try to make that work in the other cases above are far more troublesome than simply needing people to tap backspace, as I'd argue they would do intuitively anyway, if a word is wrong.

    Please, please can SwiftKey address my points above and explain how I am meant to achieve the typing and capitalisation correction I've described with their new system in a way that is as simple as it was with the old one? Because I don't think it's possible and I think that's why the product needs to change back, or at the very least offer an option to do so.

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    Hritwik Jadhav

    @subliminal5oh2
    Hello again. I have submitted a feature request to bring back he auto space as an option.

    I can fairly see that all your words do mark a certain percentage of truth and righteousness, but I also find the remaining percentage to be less thought, less polite, less focused, less precise and less parallel to our views of a 'community moderator'.

    Now I see that you may not intend to speak with all the ills mentioned, and that you are, may God forbid if I'm wrong, fairly innocent to the allegations made. But as a mark of truthful feedback to how you've been, please do read the suggestions made by some of us, and underlined by many of us here about how to react in such situations, i.e. How to not add fuel to the fire.

    Also, as a mark of reconciliation, may I know what is it that you do as a 'community manager' in the forums?

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Hritwik,
    I have read this entire thread, I was the first commenter and therefore have been subscribed to this topic since the beginning. A lot of times with polarizing topics such as these the best practice is to sit and watch, monitor for spam, and links that are against the post made by Ryan early on in this thread. As I said, the new function of flow works for me, albeit has some downfalls. I don't like the way it handles punctuation and capitalization, which I have stated. How my tone comes across in these forums is something I control very often as I do not say normally what is on my mind bluntly   because I do hold a position in this community and the SwiftKey community before it. With that being said, I do have personal opinions about the application as well and will stand up and be heard as an end user, just as everyone here has.

    As a community moderator, or SwiftKey Specialist as we were known in the VIP forums our task is simple, offer advice on certain issues or functionality that some are having difficulty with as we proved our knowledge of the product time and time again to the SwiftKey Community Manager. This put us in a position of knowledge and feedback as well as being able to streamline topics. Forum moderation came later, when organization, creating topics, managing spam, pointing out the correct area to post, etcetera. Feel free to peruse the forums and you will see pretty much the extent of what we do.

    Have a good one friend,
    Happy typing

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Subliminal5oh2 You state that only a fraction of the people are visiting that link that Daniel posted. Had I seen that link before I read my email this morning, I would have visited it before now. Perhaps it has been shared before and I just missed it. At any rate, you are still missing the point.

    Ryan P, from the SwiftKey Team, asked for our opinion of the "new Flow experience for SwiftKey for Android." At the end of Ryan's post he says "Let us know your thoughts on this new change in the comments below." So, that is what we all did, and are still doing.

    Then yesterday you spoke up and informed us that the SwiftKey team is not commenting or reaching out to us because we are being negative and disliking their changes. And I quote " There is no official comments or reaching out on the thread simply because of the nature of negative feedback." 

    That says to us (OK, at least it says to me), that SwiftKey doesn't really care if we don't like a new "feature" they added to the product. They only care to hear our praises about it. If that's all they wanted to hear, then they should have made that clear in the post. Maybe say "Let us know your positive thoughts on this, and keep your negative ones to yourself." 

    Later you say "If you choose to adopt and adapt to this new change you may find it much better than prior usage of flow." This tells me that if I just suck it up and use it long enough, I'll get used to it and forget that I didn't like it and I don't work as well as I used to. This is true. When I change over to the Google Keyboard, which works just as well as this new version of SwiftKey, I will get used to it. I won't work any faster either way, but I will likely forget that I used to be faster.

    And by the way, I did submit a support request through that link, though it was not a feature request, and the response was an instruction set on how to use the new flow, and to provide feedback. But every time I provide feedback I feel like SwiftKey just doesn't care. I get canned responses to submit a feature request or instructions on how to use the new flow, and to just keep using it until I get used to it.

    I don't want to get used to it. I want to work the way I like to work. And for the record, SwiftKey did not "add" a new feature. They replaced functionality. I have worked as a tester and developer in companies providing software to pharmaceutical, semi-conductor, and aerospace industries for over 20 years. If we had just replaced a key function of the software for a "better" way, we would have gone out of business. If you want to add a function, then you add it as an option; you don't just replace it. 

    Granted, this isn't going to cause ecoli to get introduced to someone's medicine, or cause a rocket to blow up. It's just pissing off a lot of long-time customers. And you coming in telling us that the feedback that was requested isn't going to be listened to if it's negative, just fuels the fire.

    At any rate, I'm done here. I'll only be monitoring this thread for a little while longer to see if the SwiftKey team finally responds to us. I'll eventually stop watching this, and just live with my downgraded version. When it eventually stops working due to Android OS upgrades, I'll just use the built in keyboard. Since SwiftKey is no better than that now, I'll eventually forget that life used to be better.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Bret I'm sorry that you misunderstood my meaning. Case in point, I add my feedback and opinion to the topic, in return I am downvoted, attacked, and called a bad moderator simply for having a different opinion as an end user. Doesn't bode well for any company to get involved in a negative contest between users and developers.
    Hence why I am responding, to show that this function does appeal to long time users as I have been here since the legacy SwiftKey, on an HTC Evo. Just not the ones posting here. I am offering insight that differs from the opinions of most here and therefore am prepared to take the heat from that. Read what I say, there is nothing between the lines or any difference between you and me as end users. I do not have more information, only insight of longevity spent in the community and seeing how different things are handled with SwiftKey and their team.
    Have a great one, will be looking forward to hearing from you in the future.

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    Daniel Weis

    @Subliminal5oh2

    You've said yourself that you're not a heavy swiper, so clearly you don't understand just how badly this update has affected us who are. Those of us that can swipe entire pages with minimal touch typing have high accuracy and no need for corrections. We know that when we get it wrong, the correction isn't going to help because usually we just flowed the word wrong and get irrelevant results. Sometimes the algorithm can't decipher between certain words like "it" "or" "out" "our" "put" "pit" or "pour" so they get touch typed anyway. We are a minority subset of the user base that have been taken for granted because we "get it" where the majority of users, some old, some new, just don't.

    I don't understand why you are still defending the update when so many people have come here and taken time to explain the issues with it as eloquently as they can only to be ignored.

    If the SK team had been more proactive about communicating with the user base on this topic, there would have been a lot more good feedback and a lot less flame wars. At this point, further discussion in this thread is basically useless because it's become a toxic echo chamber.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Daniel Weis said:
    "I don't understand why you are still defending the update when so many people have come here and taken time to explain the issues with it as eloquently as they can only to be ignored."

    He stated that he figures that everyone who hasn't complained must be happy with the change, so we're an insignificant subset. Apparently the SwiftKey Team live in a black/white world where if someone doesn't actively complain about something, they must love it. Nevermind all the people who probably got annoyed with the change and just silently switched to another keyboard app since doing so literally takes a few seconds. Or the people who are suffering silently because they're hoping this whole thing is a temporary bug.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Daniel while I'm not a heavy flow typer, I do use flow frequently, I just wouldn't say primarily. I'm also not trying to invalidate the upset members of these forums and they're opinions. I'm simply offering mine. I'm not defending the update, I'm simply saying that it was something to get used to much like losing my gestures to flow. It's not a app breaking function for me since I primarily use tap typing and my predictions as is. I've catered SwiftKey to very much know what's next, and I take advantage of that. There is not a single keyboard on the market that performs notably well when comparing it to SwiftKey.

    @Frank, I'm not sure how many times I can say that my personal opinions do not reflect upon the opinion of SwiftKey as I am an end user just as you are. I've just also seen this type of outcry in the community before, and often times it is small potatoes to the entire user base. Never said you guys were insignificant, I was trying to offer perspective. If 10/10 million are saying it's a bad change but another 10/10 million love it and the remaining 9,999,980 users are indifferent to the functionality then it's a non-issue. That's just the way big companies work. Again, that's from experience working with major media and technology outlets, not a SwiftKey specific mentality or even a process supported by SwiftKey. That's my personal opinion of passionate users dealing with change of functionality they're used to. Nothing abojt SwiftKey is black and white. It's fluid and ever-changing, often times those changed are done through feature requests, development, roll outs, and announcements.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that last comment. That is definitely not how big companies work. Please read again my example about Apple and the native scrolling. This is how big companies work when dealing with their userbase.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Nicolas, I understand the Apple comparison. I'm taking that from my experience of dealing with Samsung as a previous mobile rep, AT&T as both an install tech and a DirecTV rep as well as an RSC, again, and as I said above, my personal experiences. Individuality has a lot to do with our experiences here, I'm quite accustomed to people disagreeing with me, but opinions are just that, opinions. Certain companies do what they will, I have also worked directly for the largest smartphone manufacturer in the world, once something is determined to be the best interest of the company, it doesn't often change as we are not designers of these products, we are users. We can try to negotiate change or find a happy medium all day long, and hopefully it will become an option to fix the reservations people have about it, but that isn't always the case.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Seconding Paul S and Daniel's Weis' feedback.

    The hyphenation/capitalization process is broken. And if you are primarily a swipe user this update slows you down. I think this is objective, and not a question of "getting used to it". It's hard for me to see how it could be otherwise.

    I'm open to hearing the counterargument, if it contains data and is more than "we like it this way because we don't swipe a lot and people asked for it". Please, SwiftKey, answer these comments?

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @sub
    Brother ,tell me if sk is not driven by user opinions (as you say), why the hell is the false claim, "we'll now Autospace after flow and emoji" present in the sk beta information section in play store since last two updates?
    Damn that misinformation gave many a hope of reversal of the flow behaviour or an option. But it's the same thing.
    Why would you guys mention such a thing?

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    Hritwik Jadhav

    I am following this thread right from the beginning and, especially from the time @Subliminal5oh2 started actively defending and others were offended. I have seen quite a bit of raging on him, which I find to be purely unnecessary. I've seen some censored swears, but they are expendable.

    I am very much impressed by the way @Subliminal5oh2 is possessing patience and is trying his best to appear calm and believe me, he is suggesting! He is defending his views with the very zest.

    But he does seem to miss one point in all his comments, and that would be the very reason why he is pissing everyone off the grid. That reason will be - the subject of the thread. It's Ryan P asking us of our views and feedback on the new change. And here we have our community manager stating that the entire thread was revolving around the same thing. Negative feedback, negativity.

    Just thought to let you know what was hurting deep within whilst admiring your defensive stance.. So that you might improvise.

    Another note, I have both the versions (neutered and play store beta) with me. So I can switch between learning to live with the new change, and to keep living the zenith of SwiftKey operation. I somehow seen to come back to the zenith, i.e. With auto space enabled neutered SwiftKey. Some tips from your side about how to use the new change, would be more than just welcome!

    Cheers, and happy defending friend,
    ~Hritwik.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Right, I agree with that. Trying to defend the change is similar as trying to defend making something usable by righties only. Sure, there's 80% of righties around, but the 20% of lefties are going to be really pissed off that they can't use their artifact anymore. It's like saying "well, lefties, this change works for us righties, just give it time, you'll see that it'll grow on you and you'll even be faster eventually." No we won't. UX is relative to each user and while a certain UX will work for a majority of the population, a certain fraction won't be able to accommodate it. And the 80/20 split on lefty / righty is already strong enough that there is even a SwiftKey setting for it.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Travis, I agree wholeheartedly, the punctuation and capitalization scenarios need work.

    @Gaurav, I never said that SwiftKey wasn't adapting to user feedback, in fact I said the opposite, having predictions appear in real time rather than predicting the next word has been requested, and this is a great start to that. Is it free if it's issues? Absolutely not, I never said it was perfect, I just said I found a way to make it work for me.

    @Hritwik
    Thank you for the kind words. I am trying to cover all the bases sometimes in my haste specifics don't get mentioned.
    Some tips that have worked for me with the new flow system, is simply start the sentence and use the predictions. This doesn't always work, but it is mostly successful for myself. Otherwise I use flow through space and flow sentences then will proof-read the paragraph and fix punctuation as necessary.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Bro, are you trying to act dumb or they are paying for that very purpose only? By definition predictions mean future telling and not "real time".
    Second, please defend the false claim shown on play store information that reads, "Autospace after flow and emoji, flow on"

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    Subliminal5oh2

    They're not paying me. And predictive text is based off an autocorrect function. The flow is corrected in the options and then I use the predictions to continue. Not sure what you mean by playing dumb, and I have yet to insult your intelligence or opinion. Sharing the definition of prediction without the context of what we were speaking about, is fruitless and without merit. I use my keyboard in my way, and you use it differently, that's fine with me, not sure where you take offense at my personal usage, but I have nothing for that.

    Also what false claim? The beta performs differently than market and could possibly be notes from a different release. I'm quite unsure about any false claims made as I scan release notes and then test for bugs, not known changes in function.

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    Hritwik Jadhav

    @subliminal5oh2 I'll surely heed your tips and post my updates here soon.

    As for the play store beta update, the description does say that the swiftkey will now put space after flow and emoji. I didn't seem to find that was the case when I updated my beta. Your thoughts on this?

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    Permanently Deleted User

    What false claim? Com'on man, look at the sk beta on play store, and read what's new.
    And so much from someone who says he is not insulting, get facts clear atleast.
    Btw i'm done with you. Feels like banging head against a wall.

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    Subliminal5oh2

    @Hritwik I would honestly chalk it up to a typo or a mistaken line from prior release notes. Sloppy for sure, but not unforgiveable.

    @Gaurav my facts are fine, I am currently on my iPhone so I do not have access to the google play store, I will when I'm at home and will also bring this to their attention. Typos happen my friend, especially when a new beta update rolls out weekly. As for it being a false claim, I can't speak on that as I do not think for a second that the developers meant to mislead anyone regarding the features of their beta. Sorry for the feeling of you beating your head against a wall, I didn't think that asking for clarification was that big of an ordeal.

    As always, happy typing friends :-)

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    Permanently Deleted User

    Is there a place where we can see where this feature request (changing prediction to correction) and how many people asked for this?  I'm just curious as to how popular a request it was, and it would be nice to see. I'm assuming that there is a page on your site with a list of feature requests somewhere with how many people have asked for it. 

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    Hritwik Jadhav

    I agree with Kim, there has to be a page possessing such a transparency!

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    Rhonda Pezzorello

    I'd like to add my name to the list of users that are unhappy with this change. I've been using SwiftKey for years and the feature that kept me using it was the way flow would insert a space then predict the next word when using flow. Otherwise, it's no better than Gboard. I was excited when I saw that beta said spaces would be added. I felt duped when I discovered that was not the case. Why lie? Please do not say it was a mistake or "typo" because that is actually worse.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    @Kim Baugher
    There is no such page because the feature requests are hidden amongst the tech support ticket requests ,all of which is private. I also would like to see where there was a massive request for the basic premise of Flow to be fundamentally changed. Did it go like "Please make SwiftKey behave more like other keyboard apps. If you make this change, then I'll use it more than other keyboard apps"? Or maybe it was more like "I've learned that I'm really bad at swiping, so maybe if you make me manually confirm every word I swipe, then I'll use SwiftKey more!"

    It's all a bunch of hogwash, anyways. There are no such requests. There's absolutely no logic behind such requests and there's no layman way of expressing it. It's an excuse being concocted to cover up the fact that this is being rammed down our throats.

    First we're asked for feedback, and then when the feedback is almost universally negative, we're told our feedback isn't being listened to because it's universally negative. That pretty much confirms that the SwiftKey team has no intention of ever making this new behavior optional. It's being force upon us, possibly for legal reasons or maybe because of some executive's delicate sensibilities, and it's not ever going to go back to how things were. Nothing we say here or in any feature requests is going to change it.

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    Permanently Deleted User

    withdrawn.

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    Ryan P

    To clear up any confusion. I marked my last post as an "official comment" what this does it make it the very first comment on the very first page. So if anyone goes to visit this forum post for the first time, it is the first comment they see. 

    I have copied my official comment below so it is also seen by people who visit the end of the thread.

     

    "Hello everyone,

    We take this feedback very seriously and are working on improving the experience for our users. We’ll follow up in this thread when we have more news. Thanks for all your input.

    Best,

    Ryan, SwiftKey Community Manager"

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    Permanently Deleted User

    As Rainyday2014 and the rest of the people here have posted, this new feature is annoying as it breaks a habit we've established waaaay back since Flow was introduced.

    I don't have to explicitly repeat their sentiments above as it is basically the same experience I had since I got the latest update with this "feature". I hate it and I absolutely regret having updated the app.

    Please do make this as an option. Thanks.

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